ST PAUL, Minn. — The differences were abundantly clear Friday night when Attorney General Keith Ellison and challenger Jim Schultz squared off in a live, televised debate in Saint Paul.
Democrat Ellison and Republican Schultz are virtually tied in most polls just a couple weeks before the election, which may explain why the gloves came off during a rhetorical battle that played out on Twin Cities Public Television's “Almanac” program.
The two candidates sat on opposite ends of a sofa, buffered by hosts Cathy Wurzer and Eric Eskola in the middle. Ellison and Schultz sparred over crime, abortion, the Feeding Our Future fraud case, and the COVID pandemic shutdowns.
“I was deeply disturbed that they could have Target open down the street and then churches, synagogues, mosques all closed. That was a blatant violation of the First Amendment. I would've never been part. I would've advised the governor it was unconstitutional,” Schultz remarked.
He said he disagreed with Ellison’s efforts to enforce Gov. Tim Walz’s restrictions on public spaces.
Ellison said out of thousands of businesses in the state he only had to take 24 violators to court, and his actions were all upheld by district court judges.
“We were trying to save lives. Most people cooperated and worked with us because they understood that this thing claimed the lives of over 13,700 Minnesotans. People died. Let's not forget!”
Schultz repeated his theory that Keith Ellison is responsible for the wave of crime and lawlessness in Minnesota because he endorsed Minneapolis Ballot Question 2 in 2021.
“We’re all living through this, and the fact is we have an extreme attorney general who has embraced reckless policies when it comes to public safety,” Schultz asserted.
That proposed charter amendment was defeated by Minneapolis voters. It would’ve replaced the MPD with a more all-encompassing public safety department and removed police staffing quota from the city charter.
The Attorney General’s Office doesn’t control police staffing or police budgets in individual cities, but Ellison said as a longtime resident of Minneapolis he wanted to lend his voice to the ballot question that sprung from the murder of George Floyd.
“We had some difficulties in Minneapolis with George Floyd’s murder, and it was important to get together and talk as a community about how that never happens again,” Ellison explained. “I wanted to see the department be more inclusive, police plus gang violence prevention, plus mental health, plus housing.”
Schultz has made crime the primary focus of his campaign, but the Attorney General’s Office isn’t a law enforcement agency. Both Wurzer and Eskola pointed out that the AG’s function is primarily acting as the lawyer for state agencies and civil court litigation, especially around consumer protection. There’s a small staff of criminal lawyers who assist local county attorneys upon request.
“The attorney general can have a meaningful impact on crime in our state by having a properly staffed attorney general’s office. There are only three criminal prosecutors in an office of 150 attorneys right now,” Schultz said.
Ellison lobbied the legislature to increase his budget so he could bring on more criminal attorneys without sacrificing the ongoing work of the consumer protection lawyers on staff. But the House Democrats and Senate Republicans ultimately could not agree on a public safety spending bill before the session ended.
Ellison said he’s proud of the convictions his criminal team has secured across the state, 50 cases with 26 convictions already delivered. But he said most crime is handled by local jurisdictions. He said he wouldn’t want to interfere with that.
“There are 87 counties in the state. They elect their county attorney, and the county attorney’s job is to prosecute crime. They do a good job,” Ellison said.
Schultz shot back.
“We’re living through the greatest increase in violent crime in many decades it’s not enough for the attorney general to throw up his hands and brag about 50 prosecutions over four years!”
Ellison responded with equal vigor.
"Look, you’ve never litigated a case, you’ve never been in public service. You have no leadership other than high school. You act as if you know all this stuff. You’re wrong and you don’t know what you’re talking about!”
Schultz is a corporate lawyer who most recently worked Varde Partners, a global investment firm. He has not been a trial lawyer.
Schultz jabbed at Ellison over the Feeding our Future Fraud case, because Ellison’s staff represented the Department of Education when that agency was sued by the alleged fraudsters for stopping new applications for new food sites. Ellison and Gov. Walz have both said they didn’t alert the public after their suspicions because the FBI didn’t want to compromise the investigation.
“If you start talking about that investigation, what happens is computers get wiped, phones get wiped, documents get burned and people run out of the country as some tried to,” Ellison said, noting so far 50 indictments have arisen from the FBI’s investigation with the cooperation of the Dept. of Education.
The MDE eventually allowed the money to start flowing again after the judge told them in so many words, they had no legal basis to hold up the payments of those federal dollars.
Schultz said he doesn’t buy the idea that the FBI would allow fraud to continue while conducting an investigation.
“The FBI does not advise victims of theft to send out $200 million dollars to the thieves. It doesn’t happen. It didn’t happen here.”
Schultz also challenged Ellison’s charging of Officer Kim Potter with first-degree manslaughter for shooting Daunte Wright.
“When Attorney General Ellison up charged her to first-degree manslaughter after it was recommended to be second or third-degree manslaughter that was a fundamentally political move,” Schultz said.
“First of all, there’s no such thing as third-degree manslaughter,” Ellison said. “A jury of 12 Minnesotans found Kim Potter guilty beyond reasonable doubt, based on a charge that was upheld by Judge Chu.”